Adam, that's a very good question. I'd suggest that we don't have to pick between those things. On the one hand, it can simply depend on whom we're talking to. When speaking to many pharisees and lawyers of the law, Jesus just started yelling...when talking with the woman at the well, he started with a question about quenching his parched throat. So, it depends. But also, you can make the gospel clear IN their desires, working towards unveiling they selfishness of their desires, but then moving toward showing how those desires can be transformed, *not* that the desires are themselves evil, when turned toward God.

"As you disciple, having a missional focus does not take your eyes of the person you are working with, but it does help take their eyes off of themselves." That's a good line!

That's a good line: "As you disciple, having a missional focus does not take your eyes of the person you are working with, but it does help take their eyes off of themselves."

Great thought. I was thinking/wondering the same. I think he'll suggest what you did, that they're not mutually exclusive, but that the group dynamic is the one currently that is most often left out (it's true for us, to a large degree I think). This is something I'm thinking on right now, and want to talk about this more. We don't have to choose, BUT, if we were to say what was more prevalent in the NT and church history, I think it'd be easy to say that the 1-2-1 is not quite as prevalent. But again...I don't think it's an either/or.

One thing to consider is that many churches *have* figured this out. There's plenty of churches that do, so that might be helpful to remember that it's not all or nothing. But...the "church-growth" movement has had an incalculable effect upon modern church understanding. It's only been a few decades, and it may take a few decades more to unravel the damage done. That's one cause I'd suggest.

Thanks, Jordan! I appreciate your emphasis there on how to rightly interpret through the scriptures, and not the other way around, that's huge. With the sample size, are you concerned it's too small?

That's a pretty reasonable hypothesis. I've only read 1-2 more chapters past this, so we'll see what he thinks. But...I think that's a very likely partial explanation for the issue, Abe.

I'm sure he will address, it Abe. And yes, the math add ups that way. I think the primary thing is to remember that "the spirit blows where He wishes...". If it were MERELY mathmatics, then there'd be something to be concerned over. But also, the issue is that probably the vast majority of christians DO NOT think of discipleship this way. The mostly wretched "church growth" movement has been on getting people to a place to hear a guy/message, rather than (primarily) what McNabb is talking about.

Abe, I think you have a false choice going on. So, your comment, "that knowing and being conformed to Christ and the Father who sent him is of supreme value, and is a reward unto itself. And 2) that the essential mandate of the church is to maintain and deepen a love-bound union of self-sacrificing..." does not need to be made separate from multiplication. I think given the first words God has for Man in Genesis to "be fruitful and multiply..." give us a real clear understanding that the expansiveness of God's glory over all the face of the earth is a central component of what it means to glorify him. Same with the Great Commision of "make disciples", and with Paul's instruction to Timothy to "teach men who will be able to teach others also...". I do think the principle of multiplication/overflowing/fruifulness is central to the character of God, and his commands to us.

Bonus points for already posting on chapter 2!

also...come on, Bailey...you have NO profile picture? LAME

When we understand what it means "to multiply", the concept that that is our one purpose really does ring true. In the purpose of "multiplication" is the joyful expanse of God's glory, seen and experienced in all things (such as baking cookies, praying, running, reading, etc.), and to see all that He offers us in His world, multiply. Good stuff!

Good stuff, Alanna, thanks for your thoughts! The only comment I'd add is that I'd alter a bit how to think about God having "faith in us". I would say that God's plan has no fall-back, as you recounted, but that the reason it will be fulfilled is because ultimately he trusts in himself alone. This makes, in my mind, the means he has chosen to do his work (us, those whom he shows grace on) all the more marvelous and gracious.